22 June 2007

Where's Our Referendum?

Just got this in my inbox from the wonderful Roger Helmer MEP. The image is part of a democratic campaign that he is launching this week. "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty" Thomas Jefferson

15 comments:

Ed said...

Looks like the French have deleted the competition provisions from the new treaty, which is the main reason the UK signed up to the EEC in the first place.

Two referenda please. One to reject the new treaty, another to set us free.

Mark Wadsworth said...

Dear PT, I am getting the impression that you are increasingly hacked off with the EU, correct?

If so, may I ask ever so politely why you are an activist for the Conservative Party?

Ever thought about coming over to the Dark Side and joining UKIP?

Praguetory said...

It's not just me. The whole country is hacked off with the EU. I will admit that since committing to leave the EPP, the Conservatives are (deliberately?)botching the job of forming a new grouping.

But bear in mind that my dislike for Labour and all its works trumps all at present. The Tories have some excellent candidates at local and national level who I want to support. If we fail to shift Labour at the next election, I'll probably leave the UK for good and concentrate on my family.

Ed said...

Although UKIP has lofty principles, until it has a serious chance of forming a government, a vote for UKIP simply increases the chance of another pro-integration Labour government.

No thanks!

istanbultory said...

Ed makes an important point vis-a-vis Ukip. At the treaty negotiations, it seems that the gallant Poles are holding out firmly against the Germans...Chancellor Angela Merkel is still seeking to break down resistance from Poland and Britain.
'sounds familiar doesn't it?
PT,
The Czechs appear to sympathize with Poland in opposition to the proposed voting rules, though some experts have said that Czech support is only half-hearted.I'd have expected a more robustly Eurosceptic position from Prague.What gives?

Mark Wadsworth said...

Ed, this is the standard response, but if you are truly against the EU, you can't vote Tory either can you? Both under DC and historically, the Tories have been scarcely less EU-phile than Labour or LibDems.

I'd still vastly prefer a Tory to a Labour government, of course, and I'm sure that most UKIP-pers would too, that is not the point here.

CCTV said...

Good old Poles....I like them adding a bit of spice to matters .....

Jonathan Sheppard said...

PT - You may want to add Roger's blog to your regular reads -

http://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/

Ed said...

if you are truly against the EU

Depends what kind of EU it is. If it's the Blair/Sarkozy/Merkel inward looking federal state then I am truly against it, but if it's some kind of loose free trade area I'm all for it.

Many of the EU countries don't seem that keen on a EU superstate so being clever within the EU could in fact bring about some serious changes. Instead we have Blair signing up to anything that's placed in front of him then spinning a line about how he has won for Britain.

istanbultory said...

Ed, the days of "some kind of loose free trade area" are long since past. Alas. The Franco-German axis has reawoken from its slumber of recent years and plans to push on remorselessly in a federalist, integrationist manner. As we have seen over the last 2 days, the franco-German bloc is perfectly willing and able to cajole, intimidate, marginalise and out negotiate any opposition into silence.
Amazingly, TB has signed up to giving Europe a Legal Personality, which makes it a state in its own right. Some might call it treason....

Ed said...

Indeed I realise that my posts on this thread have been somewhat naive. However it's difficult to know what to do when all three main parties are pro-EU.

Perhaps indeed UKIP is the only way forward. I despair though because while there is still food in the shops, not many people are going to be worked up about our PM signing away our democracy.

Tomáš Ruta said...

And where is the referendum on monarchy? And English devolution? And declaring war on Iraq? And conducting a NATO operation in Afghanistan, which, I believe, is North Atlantic?

The Reform Treaty is so watered down that a referendum doesn't make sense; it brings less changes than Maastricht or Nice did and there was no referenda back then...

Ed said...

The Reform Treaty is so watered down

Watered down to include: a permanent president and foreign minister, a legal personality, explicit supremecy over national law, AND the agenda at the IGC to be determined by the Commission.

Yes, hardly anything to worry about. The monarch rules by consent, anyone could campaign to oust her at any moment. Every now and again someone does propose exactly that - and guess what: if it went further than it usually does WE WOULD HAVE A REFERENDUM!

istanbultory said...

Tomas Ruta,
Ed is absoolutely right. There is nothing "watered down" about the treaty. For one thing there was agreement on a full time President of the EU Council. It will be a position with real power and was, of course, a key point in the original EU constitution. After showing his compliance to Merkel and Sarkozy at the Summit, Blair himself will doubtless be a prime candidate for this position. The lovely Cherie will make a fragrant First Lady...

Mark Wadsworth said...

"while there is still food in the shops", there is a free-market wing of UKIP that says stop subsidising land owners, let's buy our food from abroad if it's cheaper. So under UKIP there will still be food in the shops, but it'll be cheaper.

Unfortunately, there is also a pro-farming interventionist wing in UKIP that says "guarantee minimum prices for farmers" I wonder which one will win out in the end.

Either way, I'd rather subsidise UK landowners that French farmers.